The Decline of Western Civilization Part III (1998) User Reviews

A compassionate -and- stylish look into an only worsening problem.

[therskybznuiss · 8/10 · 8 June 2021]

As lack of, and, declining access to mental-health care and social/housing and programs due to current pandemic(s), the issue of the street-kid, while they may have become less visible, certainly has gotten no better.

The current pandemic (not to mention the ongoing fentanyl one) have shifted focus and goals of the current programs and they have either been reduced or completely decimated.

Sadly, like at the end, they talk of the kids who died between post-production of this and release, kids on the streets are dropping in record numbers due to unreliable drug sources and just overall compassion being down to the point of non-existant.

I love Spheeris, and highly recommend this, or better yet, Suburbia : the ultimate fictional look into too real problems. Both that and this film still are incredibly relevant and don't feel any less watchable due to the movement of pop-culture. The names of the styles have changed ; the faces and the kids are still the same.

Can't teach an old dog old tricks...

[Jamal_Duval · 7/10 · 30 October 2005]

I remember seeing the theatrical trailer for this film in the theaters around seven years ago. It probably only lasted in the theaters out here for about a week and then the film disappeared entirely. I even recall finding an interview with Penelopy Spheres in a magazine somewhere around that time too. I guess I was pretty eager to see the film, but missed it. Anyhow after seeing the film for the first time today, I must say I was a bit disappointed. It seemed as if everything that was weak about the first film (namely the lame outsider questions) was all that remained in the third. How could the same film maker who made Suburbia and the first Decline be so far out of touch? I mean, she made it look like the only group doing shows in '97 was Naked Aggression. At one point in the movie she asks a kid what speed is, and then she turns around asks the same dude if his mom used to smoke it or shoot it. Whaaat? I thought you didn't even know what a tweaker was. Bascialy the the movie goes on like this, "Where are your parents? Do they like your hair? What's that in your ear? Let's interview a cop. Where do you see your self in 5 years? What's tweak? Doesn't that make you sad? Why don't you get a job?" It looked a lot like the only thing the director was really attracted to was the appearance of her subject, and in the end, even though the people in this film are are real, you kind of have to wonder how accurate this movie really is.

The name says it all...

[memery-1 · 6/10 · 7 August 2008]

I like P. Shpeeris, so I might be a little biased toward this movie. I think she did a good job with it, but as an interviewer, she comes across as a frustrated mother. Then again, how can anyone not be frustrated with the kids depicted in this film. From the opening interview, it's apparent that the movie's subjects are lazy and pretty stupid. Yes, I know some of them came from broken homes, etc., but they all come across as degenerates. It's hard to be sympathetic toward these teen-age train wrecks, but it's even harder to turn away from this film. And one has to question why these kids are the way they are? Has our country bred a subculture of mohawked hobos? Or, are things really that screwed up for troubled youth? The answers will vary depending on whom you ask, but go into this movie knowing you will be either very sad or very angry.

punx

[tsolbc · 29 May 2001]

This movie is an accurate description of a small sect of the punk scene. Since the 80s it has grown so much and has so many parts, and this is just about a few squatters from L.A., most of whom i know. And it is good as a documentary about them but don't pretend that this is at all a documentary about hte punk scene of today

Death of Punk?

[ZooNaRa · 7/10 · 24 August 1999]

Before seeing this movie, i heard a bit of hype that it was the bell tolling the end of Punk. Now, i wouldn't attribute it with that kind of importance, but in defense of that statement, the music of the bands depicted in this installment of the "Decline of Western Civilization" series, pales in comparison to the music of the bands featured in the first of the series, (i.e. the Germs, the Circle Jerks). But, it must be said that this movie is more about the lives of a handful of homeless punks in LA. It is a touching film, despite Penelope Spheeris' constantly embarrassing and exploitive interviewing techniques. The punks in the film are too interesting to be exploited to the point of their own embarrassment, however, but i couldn't help but want to see their lives documented by a better, more trustworthy director.

Sad, sobering

[preppy-3 · 10/10 · 15 May 2000]

The first film "Decline..." showed the birth of punk. This film shows almost 20 years later, what's happened to it. Basically the film is about homeless teenagers who are into punk, living off the streets of LA. It's harrowing to watch and hear what these kids go through each day. Also scary is when they're asked where they'll be 5 years from now, they all answer "dead". Despite what the former poster here said, the director is totally on the sides of the kids. She does not exploit them or ridicule them. She just basically interviews them--where they came from, how they survive, what about the future, etc. She's showing a small portion of society you never really see portrayed in films. Worth watching, but very sad.

A far cry from the excellence of the first movie

[nickenchuggets · 6/10 · 21 November 2021]

When it comes to movie sequels, part 3 is usually never as good. This is how I felt about this third and final entry in The Decline of Western Civilization series. This one feels more like a documentary about the homeless rather than a music oriented production. The first two were pretty enjoyable and offered interesting and often profane insight into two popular genres of music. The first film focused on punk while the second focused on metal. For part 3, Penelope Spheeris decided to cover gutter punk, a subgroup of punk culture which exemplifies a type of vagabond lifestyle. Most (if not all) of the musicians being recorded and interviewed are homeless, and just like the punks from the first movie, they don't view authority favorably. In fact I think it's worse here, because some of them appear mildly psychotic. One girl they interview (Spoon I think) has a ring of circular shaped burns wrapping around her arm. She says they're marks left by cigarettes after some of her friends used her skin to put them out. In spite of the fact pressing a lit cigarette to your arm would be incredibly painful, she tells Spheeris how she wants a complete ring of burn marks on her arm. Most of the kids Spheeris talks to in this film are similarly weird and hopeless (for lack of a better word). Lots of them give the same answer to Spheeris when she asks them where do you see yourself in five years: dead. They don't even really seem to care about how their own lives turn out, because many of them came from abusive households that they were happy to vacate, which explains why they're homeless in the first place. Some of them are so pathetic they have to beg people for money or agree to have complete strangers take pictures of them in exchange for money. After all this, the money is mostly spent on beer and drugs anyway. The film still has the saving grace of the footage of the band performances, but the cynical and jaded attitudes that the majority of people featured have gets old pretty fast. When I said some of the kids here are pathetic, I wasn't kidding. One of them says how he has to break into people's houses just to get food, and he has no remorse because he feels it is necessary for his survival. At the end of the film, it says how shortly after it was made, Squid (one of the punks interviewed) was stabbed to death by Spoon, his so called girlfriend, and she's awaiting trial in LA. Just what I expected. To make a long story short, I mostly found this movie disappointing. The first film is great because it shows punk as a brand new and fascinating genre that is just getting started. By the late 90s, punk is a shadow of its former self, and so are the people partaking in it. Even the rebellious musicians from the first movie would probably be embarrassed to be lumped in with the kids talked about here. Doing drugs, stealing from people, and getting into street fights with wannabe nazis are all they seem to brag about. It's over 2 decades later, and punk is mostly a forgotten genre. If the people interviewed in this movie are what's considered true punk fans, maybe that's for the best.

My favourite of the series

[ReganRebecca · 9/10 · 4 January 2017]

Having now watched the entire Decline of Western Civilization series, newly restored and released as one, I can officially say Part III is my favourite of the trilogy. While the previous films focused on beginner punk bands in L.A. (part I), and then the heavy metal following of the 80s (part II), part III nearly completely abandons the musical aspect of the series to instead focus on the punk followers.

Spheeris engages with a group of homeless youth living in downtown L.A. They are mostly teens and mostly look healthy and okay but as she interviews the children they reveal, with unflinching honesty, the abuse that led them to the streets, the boredom of their lives, and their total lack of hope (in one truly touching sequence Spheeris asks her group of misfits where they think they will be in 5 years; most of them reply that they'll be dead.

A truly heartbreaking look at the forgotten youth of America.

Interesting Punk Time Capsule, With Some Reality At The End

[verbusen · 7/10 · 24 March 2016]

I needed to clean my DVR for space and I saw I recorded this. Out of the hundred choices I had I started to watch this one, because I had much younger memories of the first film, I decided to watch this one 35 years after I watched it in a Midwest town I was driving through at the age of 17 or 18 transferring bases in the Navy. I was into punk back then but also into new wave more. There were like a dozen people my age in the theater, I had no luck finding a party afterwards and slept in my car in the theater parking lot before heading out on the road. Fun times. Anyway, as far as this film goes, I thinks it's pretty well made. There are a few grainy video scenes but it's acceptable. It's really interesting in that I watched it all, but I was interested in how this scene in 1998 was so different then the late 70- early 80's (I grew up in NYC so was slightly exposed to punk since I was 13). The politics has gone completely to the left wing, and it's like a political movement now in many regards. Before (to me), punk was rebellion against the grind of the working class, the band Naked Aggression (which has too much film time) was clear cut militant left, the whole burn everything down thing. I heard the band Fear in the film recording of Have Another Beer, but she didn't go to one of their concerts who I'm sure was touring at the time, they are definitely right wing. It would have been cool to see Fear's audience and contrast it with Naked Aggression's audience, probably a big difference. I just remembered that I had bought all the Fear CD's around the time this was made, I was in my late 30's and listening to Fear. It's also interesting for me to see the left associated with a lifestyle that is so depraved. These are young youth mostly but the older ones are really looking pretty grim after years of this lifestyle which probably includes things that will destroy your brain. Flea is interviewed also, he says basically that things suck on the streets now compared to the early 80's. He doesn't really elaborate much. The first singer for Black Flagg, Keith Morris, is also interviewed and he blamed the GOP, which I found amusing. Maybe he was railing against the state government at the time headed by Pete Wilson, but Bill Clinton was President, lol. Punk bands do that but it was lame that he went after the GOP like that. Good time capsule and if you are interested in punk music it is very interesting to watch. I was entertained. FYI, there is not much on Wikipedia about the people in this film but a blog of a women who interviewed Squid and Spoon the same time this film was made had a commenter say she killed herself in prison Sep 10 2001.

A Sad Decline

[truemythmedia · 9/10 · 13 June 2019]

This isn't as easy or as fun of a watch as the other decline movies, but it is just as important, if not more so. While the other films showed us a glimpses of the dark side of the punk world, this film throws us right in the fires with those who have little hope of escaping. It's a harrowing look at a lifestyle many of us might drive by on our way to work everyday and never even think about. I would recommend this film much like I'd recommend the others in this trilogy, though I'd recommend preparing yourself for this one.

Tragic look at the forgotten youth of the 90s

[Agent10 · 7/10 · 4 September 2022]

During my teen years, which was ironically during the time this film was made, I never really knew how pervasive the conservative, buttoned world was. I was trained to follow the usual path, get a job, worry about college, find someone to get married and share a life with and reproduce. As I worked at a Jack in the Box during this time, I met a group of homeless kids that called themselves "Gutter Punks." They had tattoos, piercings and looked like general reprobates. They raided our trash can frequently and the police had to chase them off frequently. Never in my life did I ever think I would become those "losers."

I ultimately did become one of them, developing a drinking problem in my late 20s when I realized the same thing they did....the world we live in is not built for free thinkers. At that point in my life, I had too many obligations and was thus forced to continue the life I had morphed into. While there are positives to the mainstream world, there is nothing really spectacular about selling paint, having a car payment and having to buy bulk stuff at Costco because it is cost effective for my monthly budget. The words of the kids from this movie made me think how freeing it would have been just to say "screw it" to the main stream and run away.

The biggest thing about this film was not necessarily the music, much like in the previous entries in the Decline series, but how trauma and despair hits you so much harder at an age where you are not capable of processing those feelings due to a lack of experience. I go to punk shows still while in my 40s and joke with the "old heads" that actually lived that lifestyle of drinking and reckless abandon. Much like the kids in this movie, many of them truly did not believe they would make it to 50. Even in a great Circle Jerks song-which the members are now in their 60s-they had a line stating they wouldn't make it to 60.

Either way, this is ultimately a pretty tragic look at a subculture of people in the 1990s that didn't fit into the "Clintonian" mindset of free market capitalism and massive police and military spending increases. The ending is especially twisted in a lot of ways, so be prepared for that.

Real,Exciting,Brilliant

[othersonofpezcore · 10/10 · 7 October 2005]

From the Ashes Of the first wave of Punk Comes a New Generation Of Discarded Youth in LA. this Movie is humorous,exciting,sad,real, and absolutely brilliant. A must for fans of Punk or fans of Penelope Spheeris, and if you like this movie also see Suburbia,Dudes, and of Course The Decline of Western Civilization 1. The New Breed Of Punk will make you laugh,cry, and most of all think. Also Containing Live Performances From Final Conflict, Naked Aggression, Litmus Green, And The Resistance. Penelope Spheeris delves into the lives, mindsets, and culture of these youths, and is also there for various highs and lows which shows a terrific commitment to this terrific document.

Third version

[BandSAboutMovies · 5/10 · 23 July 2020]

Penelope Spheeris went back one more time to Los Angeles' music scene and it changed her life. But for years, she didn't want to ever revisit the three films that make up The Decline of Western Civilization.

According to The Verge, she wanted her daughter Anna Fox to take over the family business of making movies and managing their rental properties around the city. Fox agreed, on one condition: that her mom finally release a collection of the Decline trilogy. What followed was a year of pure hell, as she'd call it, and the last film proved problematic, as it is so depressing that it serves as a rough close to the otherwise joyous film series.

Using the money from Senseless, a movie that she hated making for the Weinsteins, she funded this movie all on her own. "When I did Decline III, it was totally life changing for me. I had no idea what was going on out there. At that point in my career I was really rich from being paid millions of dollars for doing studio movies, and I did not have a sense at all what real life was like. That's when I went out and got my foster parent license. I had five foster kids to try to help a little bit - we all should, because it's a CENSORED mess out there."

Instead of focusing on bands as much - although Final Conflict, Litmus Green, Naked Aggression, and The Resistance perform and Keith Morris and Flea appear - this installment focuses more on the gutter punks who are roaming the streets of Los Angeles, lost and nearly all alone, save for one another.

This one isn't as life affirming as the other films and while there are moments of humor, it is few and far between. That said, I still feel that this is an important watch and shows that across three different generations, problems may not have changed all that much, but hopelessness has only grown.

A high point for Spheeris

[theclintdavis · 8/10 · 19 November 2019]

I'm a big fan of the Decline series and Spheeris has always had a great grip on the lifestyle and passion behind rock and roll as the focal point of the trilogy. While Decline III is undoubtedly the most depressing of the series, it is probably also the best.

While the other two movies were mostly about musicians and aspiring musicians, Decline III is more about the followers of musicians and their devotion to the lifestyle of the punk movement. This film is much more about homelessness than music and attempts to show why some young people are drawn to the nomadic life of a punk. The people Spheeris interviews all seem lost but they share a deep bond with each other as well as a pessimistic life view brought on by traumas of their childhoods that include abuse and degradation.

What Spheeris does successfully is showing how beautiful the souls of these people are. In many ways, you can see the punks in this film as anti-heroes who stand for positive values like inclusion, equality, free thought and non-violence, despite society's desire to paint them as violent troublemakers. She gets down into the muck with them, spending a lot of time asking real questions and showing their daily way of life, all the time showing how the punk lifestyle is less about music than philosophy.

There are also some great, high-energy musical performances that rival the ones shown in the other Decline films in terms of power. Spheeris found a lost generation of kids who were deemed disposable by their parents and society and showed us how smart and gentle they are under a tough exterior.

Another essential look at LA kids 15 years after Decline 1

[Quinoa1984 · 8/10 · 5 July 2019]

It's a small but significant crime that this didnt receive diddly squat in distribution at the time it was made; I shouldve been able to rent this from my local Blockbuster like 40 times in high school (or at least as with Decline 2 get it on eBay - the first one I got through bootleg from I can't remember where). I just dont see why an indie distributor wouldn't take this as seriously as any other documentary about marginalized people (yes, including the final title card that all profits will go to the homeless and childhood abuse victims).

This could be criticized as not as organized as the first Decline, like there are a few points where it comes close to a home movie (albeit, what a home, or lack thereof), and it may be repetitive in its points and I may have liked to have seen a few more people from the "old days" (Flea and the former lead singer of Black Flag make appearances). But I dont care. It's a Decline doc!

It's an essential document of young people, often genuinely abused and neglected since, well, they're not living on the streets just for kicks, and some talk about being force fed alcohol as babies and being beaten and neglected - and a sadness covers a lot of this. I don't think Spheeris intended that necessarily, but she also doesn't try for anything for effect inasmuch that her approach to camera and cutting or how she asks questions sensationalizes these kids. It creates empathy because, hey, this could have been me or you or anyone else. The humanity is unvarnished, exciting, and distressing. A particularly eerie highlight, so to speak, are parts of an interview she has with a junkie who is... What that looks like.

"Where are you going to be five years from now?" "Drunk!"

PS: look for a Dudes movie poster on one of the walls at the party scene.

The L.A. punk scene got real grim and ugly in the 1990's

[Woodyanders · 8/10 · 21 February 2018]

This documentary on the bleak and rough lifestyle of homeless gutterpunk teenagers and young adults who eke out a thankless existence on the mean streets of Los Angeles paints a searing and startling portrait of a segment of society that's basically been ignored and abandoned by the mainstream culture. Director Penelope Spheeris does a remarkable job of getting these kids to open up and lays themselves bare emotionally for the camera: They are essentially toxic products of abusive and dysfunctional families who drink lots of beer and embrace the nihilistic ethos of punk as a means of surmounting the pain and anguish bubbling just underneath the surface of their devil-may-care posturing attitude. It's particularly depressing to witness how the gutterpunks have completely given up on hope for a better tomorrow: When asked where they will be in five to ten years, the bulk of them answer that they will most probably be dead -- and two of them it's revealed did indeed die prior to the release of this movie. Not surprisingly, the few punk bands featured herein are extremely bitter and more critical and resentful of both politicians and organized religion. (In a neat ironic touch, the various members of the group Naked Aggression turn out to be classical musicians!). An extremely sad and sobering film.

A Rather Sad End to the Series

[Michael_Elliott · 16 August 2018]

The Decline of Western Civilization Part III (1998)

**** (out of 4)

This third and to date final entry in Penelope Spheeris' series takes us back to the punk rock scene just like the first film but instead of looking at the people on the stage this here takes a look at the punk kids who are mostly homeless and living on the streets.

This third film in certainly a lot different than the first two in the series and if you're looking for a fun time you're aren't going to find it here. I say that because these "kids" are all a rather sad bunch and I can't help but be somewhat judgmental here. Sure, the film itself doesn't judge this kids and that's what makes it great because the director really digs into the subject but as a viewer you can't help but form an opinion.

The film takes a honest look at the subjects and that includes some of them that were abused by their parents as well as many who see only death in their future. The film shines a spotlight on these kids who are homeless, living in the streets and bugging people for a little change to try and earn a few bucks for alcohol. They steal what food they eat and they have very little to no plans to be an adult, get a job or do something with their lives.

As I said, I respect Spheeris for not being judgmental and instead just showing the kids and their situation as is. Of course, it's rather ironic that the kids are constantly badmouthing the police yet look at how they live. It's easy to see why these kids would hate the "establishment" and it's because they don't want rules and instead want to do things their way. Watching this twenty-years after its release I can't help but wonder what happened to these kids.

This was a really sweet film, I loved the first two

[juanmuscle · 10/10 · 3 December 2018]

But this one sort of touched me in different ways as it connects us in this human plight that is humanity. The ending is schocking, they are just words against a bleak opaque background but it will affect you. Its real and its harsh and its actually very entertaining. The cig burns for tats was a lil' much! Very cool, very hardcore and it really showcases the punk scene and how it will never die and above all just how important it is to have it around, whether you like spandex and cute chicks or the origins of punk from the first movie mixed in with some skating, this one sort of combines the two and is more about the aftermath of the show as it takes us deeper into the seedy aftermath of what happens to the fans after the show, its raw and real and makes you wonder why in this modern age we yet have to live like this?

What??

[13Funbags · 1/10 · 8 March 2019]

I have been listening to punk for almost 40 years and don't know any of the bands who perform. To make it worse, they start off by talking to kids in line to see Green Day and the Offspring. Two of the biggest sell outs in punk history. But it's not really any worse than the first movie. If you're easily shocked or confused you will enjoy this. If you like punk rock, you won't.

Punk is Dead

[juliankennedy23 · 2/10 · 28 March 2018]

The Decline of Western Civilization Part III: In the third of the Decline films, director Penelope Spheeris revisits the punk scene she illuminated in her first Decline film. Here she finds the struggle of street kids and young adults in West Hollywood trying to make it day by day, fighting off attacks from skinheads and following the ever decreasing number of punk bands that remain in the scene.

The Good: Like her previous two films Spheeris highlights some bands and one of them is actually pretty good. Naked Aggression led by lead singer Kirsten Patches seemed like America's answer to Chumbawamba. The band even shows their not inconsiderable classical music chops. As Todd in the Shadows would say they deserved better.

The Bad: In 1999 Rory Kennedy made a documentary about a family in Appalachia that had been beset by poverty for the last 100 years. Being the youngest daughter of Robert F Kennedy this was a topic that was close to her heart. Her film American Hollow would expose us to the real people behind the poverty and help bring in a new age of help for those folks dependent on handouts whom the American Dream had passed by.

Unfortunately for Rory, her film features the laziest bunch of yokels this side of Jerry Springer. Rory simple didn't see it. One cannot watch her film and not think we need to cut welfare of yesterday and get these people a clue.

Spheeris doesn't see it as well. Yes, the kids featured are broken. In reality, many of them are pretty horrible people. There is a scene where they all crash at a poor black man's apartment. He is in a wheelchair from an auto accident, doesn't drink and lives in a humble one bedroom. About sixty of these street hooligans pile in there as if it was a scene from Aronofsky's Mother!. They trash the place beyond recovery and the look of pain in the man's eyes is haunting. He just wanted a friend.

Spheeris does her interviews like the previous two films and once again most of her subjects are understandably about as deep as a puddle. She seems interested in the dirt about how they left home but leaves some obvious questions on the table. Starting with why are they dressed in fashions that went out of style before they were born.

In conclusion: Punk is long dead by the time the documentary starts. The bands, with one exception noted above, are barely garage bands and the fans are begging for a dollar to buy a pint of MD 20/20. Apparently, there are skinhead Nazis that prey on these youth but we never see one and Spheeris really drops the ball not getting one to sit down and tell their story.

On some level, it is an interesting look at a slice of life on the margins but the combination of bad people and bad music make this an unpleasant ride. One wishes for a filmmaker who could see what she really was looking at.

An Unworthy Effort

[mcjensen-05924 · 1/10 · 25 October 2022]

This movie is not about punk music or punks at all. The music highlighted is awful childish crap except with the exception of Litmus Green This is just about a bunch of homeless losers being idiots on the streets begging money for beer. There's no intelligence or depth to anyone involved in this project, including the maker/interviewer. It's strange how uninteresting and bland these characters are. It's like they all dress and talk how they think punks are supposed to act, but miss the mark entirely. True punks are intelligent, introspective and have coherent critiques of society. Even the questions are weak and just haven't been given much thought. When she hears a sad story her next bit questions is always Does that make you sad? Gimme a break!! And if someone says their parents don't know where they are, she then asks have you talked to them? Seriously? How are they going to communicate if they aren't aware of each other's location? Stupid brainless nonsense. The first movie had very good bands and a look at the history and movement of the scene. The only hafway interesting part in this movie was a brief interview with Keith Morris, but even that didn't pack much punch. The interview with Flea was pathetic, but I learned how inarticulate and dumb he is at least. Anyway there's nothing here to really enjoy at all. While the situation of homeless teens is indeed sad, it's hard to care about them when they don't seem to care about themselves or anything else. The first 5 minutes of the original packed far more punch the entirety of this snoozefest. Pathetic and lazy attempt to cash in on the success of the first 2, and the 2nd one wasn't even that great either.

Not even about the music

[lfreeze · 2/10 · 31 May 2019]

This movie was about a small group of homeless kids in LA who called themselves punks and, sadly, are probably mostly dead now because of the lifestyle they close to live. That part at least adequately represents the title of the film. But as far as the music scene this film was supposedly based upon, it falls way short. At the beginning of the movie they barely touch on the subject of the actual music, the scene, what it was about, and what it was like growing up at that time.Then the director, obviously knowing nothing about the music herself, veered completely off course for the rest of the movie. The first two movies talked about the music and the scene for a good majority of the movie, but this one did not. I feel like the director half assed this movie just to get the trilogy done, when she very well could've explored beyond the one street corner in LA to get a feel for and adequately represent the punk music scene of the 90's, which was still alive and well at the time, and actually meant something to a lot of people. Maybe someday a bunch of punks will get together and make a movie about what it was really like...