Submission: Part I (TV Short 2004) Poster

(2004 TV Short)

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10/10
The murdering of Van Gogh proves the value of the movie
xenolupa26 October 2006
The murdering of Van Gogh proves the value of the movie. It proves that there are Muslims out there that behave just like the movie tells us. The reactions of several Muslims in other comments here at IMDb also prove the value of he movie. They show that no comments are allowed to be made about Islam, any comment, any critique, is bad and evil and is considered (by Muslims) to be offensive to Muslims.

Islam is a totalitarian religion, Muslims are totalitarians. They accept no comments on their ways, on their religion. They respond with violence, with death threats, with loud protests. They do that over and over again, like they did against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, like they did at the time of the Danish cartoons. They can't control themselves, it seems.

They use the Qurân to show they are right for using violence. Suicide bombings bring Muslims to heaven. Killing Theo van Hogh brings the Muslim who killed him to heaven. A Muslim who would kill Ayaan Hirsi Ali (or Salman Rushdie) would go to heaven. Hitting disobedient wives is allowed by the Qurân. Killing non-believers (heretics) is allowed by the Qurân.

They? Not all of them. Indeed. But too many do.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Theo van Gogh are heroes for making this movie.
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10/10
Finally someone dares!! Bravo
pradhanleena25 October 2007
Why is it so hard for Muslims to self-reflect? I do have Muslim friends who are highly educated and clearly not fanatical and just good people but even with those friends I cannot openly talk about Islam and the issues of women in Islam. On the other hand I can talk to my Catholic or Hindu or Jewish friends about the problems and issues in their religion and yet they are open about it. They may not agree with me but clearly they do not get offended. Common we are in 2007, we have walked the moon, taken trips in space, cloned animals. How can we still adhere to the religious laws that were written centuries ago? They probably worked centuries ago but these laws/rules have to be shed. Centuries ago we all had tails and now the only thing that has remained of it is a atrophied tail bone. We evolved and so now our old traditions need to be evolved. Education for Muslim women in every part of this world is utmost necessary. Only then we can get out of this vicious cycle of fanaticism and narrow-mindedness!! What are some of these Muslim men afraid of? They have to be so utterly insecured, so utterly inconfident that the only way they get their confidence is by their physical strength and oppression of women. It is responsibility of every educated Muslim to have an open discussion about the status of women in Islam. Just because it does not happen in your family, it does not mean it does not happen!! Wake up my Muslim brothers and sisters!!
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9/10
the majesty of art
wwydf28 April 2005
I think many of you are confused as to why Ayan Hirsi Ali decided to write this film and what she believed it would do for Muslim women. It is no secret that all religions seem to have a flaw within them. They also have a tendency to leave women out and treat them as unequal. I happen to be married to a practicing Muslim man who lived in Egypt until he was 10 years of age. We are newly weds and currently live in the united states while I finish school. I can truly say that many Muslim men don't beat, and abuse their wives. In fact a large portion love them to death. However, Don't TELL me that Islam doesn't condone honor killings.

Ayan Hirisi Ali's point was that honor killings are occurring in nations where police forces and governing bodies are at large. They are taking place in overly tolerant nations that have become morally blind. This I believe is a misplaced respect. You should not be allowed to shoot your daughter or slit her throat because she's wearing eye shadow and talked to a Christian boy. Progressive western nations such as Holland, Germany and the UK weren't punishing these "honor killers". In many cases they even received reduced sentencing for things that the nation deems unacceptable behavior. Ayan Hirsi Ali wanted to put a stop to that.

what better way than a film. Film is one of the most powerful ways of evoking a response out of a group of people. Once initial shock is over action hopefully takes place. Thats what Ms Hiris Ali desired. Now All of these western civilizations are scrambling for an answer. London is cracking down on their police force and training them to deal with honor killings. Holland is implementing legislation on protection of Muslim women, and Germany is discussing new integration laws.

The point is she opened this topic up before the world through the majesty of film. The power of art, written word and human voice combined. She had been fighting for this cause for awhile however before the film submission little had been done.

I read one comment earlier and this is my response to them - I don't believe Ayan Hirsi Ali wrongly executed her quest for better treatment of Muslim women by seeking out Van Gogh. Politically it was a brilliant choice. She was not trying to evoke a response from Holland's male Muslim population she was trying to reach the rest of Holland. So by having the controversial Van Gogh direct was a great idea. ( If You think she was actually going to change a conservative Muslim's opinion on honor killings through a 12 minute film than your being naive. Van Gogh was respected and admired by thousands. She wasn't trying to change Islams views. She was trying to awaken the rest of western europe. Think about it. It was well thought out.

My thanks for posting my comment and I hope everyone finds something they can draw out of it. I really have enjoyed the comments from all.
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Unacceptable overreaction
chuckboris15 March 2005
While this movie might not be the best movie ever produced about Islam, it is absolutely amazing to find so many "tolerant and moderate" Muslim people so upset about it.

How many movies are there out there which show the negative side of Christianity? How many Nazis-Christians, pedophile-Christians and just-plain-evil-Christians movies are out there? How many movies are out there which show Jesus from a "blasphemous" perspective? We have seen Jesus as a homosexual, a sex fiend, a dope smoking hippie and many other potentially offensive angles. Yet, every time Christian extremists raise hell (ha ha) about it, most of us ask them kindly to chill out and to respect freedom of speech as well as artistic freedom.

How come we do not hold the Muslim community to the same standard? I don't understand why so many people find it OK for so called moderate Muslims to demand that movies like Submission be censored. We would not tolerate it if "moderate" Christians demanded the same about any of the flicks that might portray Christianity from a negative point of view.

If you know anything about Islam and Muslim women in general, if you have actually talked and met with Muslims who practice their faith, you will have to at least agree partially with what is shown in this short film.

Obviously, this doesn't mean that all Muslim men abuse their women or that all non-Muslim men are nice guys. As a matter of fact, I just watched a short documentary on women abuse in Spain, a traditionally Catholic country.
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to Denmark guy, again
sonicdeath121 February 2005
Are there laws in Denmark against beating women? In most civilised countries, there are. This is what Hirsi Ali was expressing: that women are often abused in Muslim households and are often powerless to stop it. You may consider it blasphemous to fight for women's rights, but Hirsi Ali would disagree.

You call it propaganda... So is the Diary of Anne Frank (or any other book written about a person's experience) propaganda? It, like Submission, also describes the experiences of one person, as they experienced the world. Submission is an expression of what Hirsi Ali has seen/experienced. You insult yourself when you say it is generalising about all Muslims because nowhere in the film does it say every Muslim abuses every woman. Does every piece of work always have to represent everyone? If I write a play about a Dane, does he have to represent all Danes? If he commits a crime, are all Danes criminals?

Ayaan Hirsi Ali (www.vpro.nl) has lived in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia and Kenya. In my opinion, she understands what goes on in Muslim countries better than someone in Denmark. Furthermore, this piece is a combination of what happened to many women she encountered as well as herself. There were a few people who thought that Ms. Ali knows nothing about Islam. If you know anything about her, you would inevitably disagree. I commend you, gentlemen for not beating your wives... and ladies who are able to work in Egypt and other Muslim countries. In fact... I think you should write a play glorifying Islam's treatment of women (and hope you don't get stabbed). I just want to know why you think your experiences are representative of everyone else's in the Islamic world?

To conclude... even if Ms. Ali is lying, making up stories, etc., in Holland/Western Europe, she has every right to do so. If you are offended by it, change the channel. If you think this is the first time a piece of film misrepresented a people... go watch a Country Western, observe the savage Indians hopping around on horses, making bird calls. However, no one seems to raise their voice about how Native American culture is 'misrepresented' or try to stab John Wayne in broad daylight on a busy street.
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9/10
courage
markvanderwal23 September 2005
It is hard to speak about the state of women in Islam without being told to keep quite,sometime the ultimate price has to be paid.That is the nature of this film. It may not make for friends but it gets things in the open so that changes can take place so human rights can be respected. There have been very few films about Islam as a religion.I do not know of any about the human right tragedy in the Sudan.I wish to see more films about Islam but am afraid that filmmakers will be leery after this.That is why I hope that filmmakers will not be afraid of death threats,because information about Islam is needed especially since 911.WE must realize that the Dutch are very tolerant and that this atheist filmmaker did have a right to make films that is the bottom line.I hope that the film will energize Islamic men to correct abuses as much as they can.
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10/10
Heroes
egor116 December 2005
This documentary will be one historic document. Therefore the name Ayaan Hirsi Ali will be in history books all over the non-Muslim world. The director Theo van Gogh gave his life, left a son and a whole country. The murderer of Theo van Gogh (Mohammed Bouyeri) was caught after the murder, shooting at policemen, trying to get a martyr. Police acted professionally, arrested the fool with one shot in his leg. Submission is esthetically a beautiful filmed story about a young woman, enslaved my her religion (Islam). A must see, in these times of growing Islam-influence over the world.

Politically correct movements try to impose censorship on Ayaan Hirsi Ali to prevent her to make Submission II.
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Respect
For most of us, the worst thing that could happen after making a movie is complete commercial and critical failure. For Ayyan Hirsi Ali, it is death. And after her director and co-producer, Theo Van Gogh, was murdered late last year, this is a very real possibility. Their courage and conviction to be heard (no matter how controversial the opinion) is an inspiration to me. That being said, I'll attempt to defend controversial films on a more general level: I have never seen a movie that has literal changed my lifestyle, and don't think it is even possible. We are bombarded with too much information for something as short and singular (no matter how visceral) as a movie. But what they can do is begin the process of thinking, and evaluating our own lives. So regardless of whether or not you agree with a film, if it gets you thinking about a particular issue, then you should consider it a success. Thank you for your time. Take care.
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open mindedness
shippo-129 January 2005
It's actually funny how some people here ( Muslims ) go all out against this movie for all the wrong reasons. This movie is about how some men abuse their religion. Not about how the religion abuses women. This problem exists in all religions because some people are just plain bad people, whether they are Muslims or not. This short movie was made to address that specific problem. In the 80's/90's there were a lot of movies about Christian ( or at least white ) women being raped of abused. At the time people didn't say ..."ohhh all Christian men abuse women". NOR should they say that no one does this. The same goes about this movie. I work around a lot of Muslims and yes i find it a very honourable religion but there are always people that don't allow their woman to talk and other strict rules. So why do people here overreact? Because people think their religion is flawless and every Muslim is a good Muslim... and that was what this movie was made for, to show people CAN be bad too in any religion, but no one dared to say it because of fear of being called a racist. He dared ( even though he did go a bit too far sometimes) and paid the price for it. Try to keep an open mind en learn from the movie.
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10/10
Also to Denmark guy
jaltesorensen4 February 2006
Warning: Spoilers
This statement and comment is also to the Muslim-man, who claims he is from Denmark. First of all let me tell you all that he is a liar, the right-winged politician he talked about, Pia Kjærgsgård, have NEVER stated anything that was that racist - NEVER. She has NEVER used the word "Perker", which is a very offensive word. I am not trying to defend her (not at all). But I am just trying to fight ignorance and lies from Muslims and Nazis who are trying take down the free society of the West. Here on the internet it is easy to spread lies.

Now to the movie: It is GOOD. It is so good, that everyone in the world should see, just to get a view of how some of these extreme religious people think (not only Islam, but all religions). A shame that Theo Van Gogh had to die because of this documentary. One of the only documentaries that show the TRUTH about Islam: a truth that every single person on the planet should know. I remember when Theo Van Gogh was brutally murdered by an extreme Islamist. The worst things was that Muslims around the world, and also in my home-country of Denmark, Muslims didn't seem to be appalled by the murder; no I would say quite the opposite, some said the murder was justified, others partied and was happy and some even said they were glad he died and that it was his own fault. I couldn't and still can't accept what all those people said. Then I saw the documentary: and it is good, first gave it 8 out of 10. But then I saw what lousy grade it had received - then I decided to give it 10 out 10, just to even out all the votes that aren't correctly used. I am 100 % certain that all those grades of 1 have been placed by Muslims that haven seen the picture - but they never accepts anything that speak against their own believes: very Un-European of them. I will get all my friends to vote 10 out of 10 on this documentary, just so it gets its reel grade - and not a vote which is to be managed by religious dogmatism, that dates back to the middle Ages
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8/10
Understand and then speak
tvalstar9911 July 2005
A lot of muslims were offended by this movie. But it is not about the Islam in general. Van Gogh was not a Islam hater or a racist. Read his books. He was a provoker and he was an atheist with a sharp tongue and a advocate for freedom of speech but that was it. He was a clown but he sometimes overdid his act so a lot of people were offended. He did offend people, don't get me wrong. But I found a lot of his pieces amusing and I think he wanted people to see the relativity in things.

In this movie is not show how bad the Islam is, but how men can use the Islam as an excuse for their deeds. That is what Ali en Van Gogh were fighting for and don't give me that crap about the somalic background of Ali. It still surprises me how many people just don't see this and still think they wanted to offend a complete religion. It is just like how Ali said herself. She said something like that no matter how you formulate, when it comes to Islam (or any religion) they will always find it offensive.
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8/10
Abuse of women justified by religion
Warning: Spoilers
This may be the most controversial work by Islam critic and director Theo van Gogh and may have been one of the crucial reasons for his assassination through a Muslim extremist, who intended to keep the sequel implied by the title from happening at all costs, only little more than two months after the release of the film.

We see a faithful Islamic woman's eyes (the rest is covered by a veil) with Koran verses tattooed to her skin, who tells us about several ways of gender discrimination including extremely violent punishments after committing adultery, being forced to marry a guy she feels nothing for at all at the age of 16, being constantly hit by her husband, being forced to stay inside unless it's absolutely necessary to leave the house and only completely covered from head to toe.

We also hear about her dreams, how she's urging to feel the wind in her hair, but knows she never will. This film offers strong criticism towards the role of Islamic women in society leading despicable lives and being discriminated against in all kinds of ways you can't and even and don't want to imagine, one of the most atrocious forms for being humiliated during their menstrual cycle. It's a sad state of affairs and there's hardly any light at the end of the tunnel, but maybe this film will help society to keep an eye on it at least to some extent, so van Gogh didn't pay with his life for nothing.
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9/10
A sincere picture of despair
No_Future7 February 2006
Warning: Spoilers
I decided to watch this movie after seeing a wholesale war erupt over 12 cartoons of the prophet Mohammed, in January 2006. After watching the cartoons, and remembering the previous fuss over Submission Part I, I decided to see myself what all the fuss was about. Frankly, I was not shocked at all.

Basically, the only mental step required for watching this movie is to look past the symbolism, and look at the story itself. The story is told by a women who strives to live by all the principles of Islam, yet feels neglected, abused, and very unhappy in her live. As the story itself is sandwiched between the beginning and ending of a Muslim prayer, it can be regarded as a despairing cry to her God, on why her position needs to be so miserable.

The film is meant to provoke a discussion about the role of women in some Muslim households, or in Islam as a whole. It is sad that many people apparently were unable to look past the symbolism of Koran texts on female bodies, and see this movie for the sincere cry for help that it is.

Good: 9/10
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10/10
Brave exposé of the horrors many Muslim women face
ikkitousen-9228517 January 2016
This short brings to light the treatment of women under Islam. Artfully done and powerful.

Under Sharia law, women have virtually no rights, non-Muslim women have zero rights. Theo Van Gogh was critical of Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam. Strangely, he never received death treats from any Christians or Jews. However anything vaguely critical, no matter how truthful will draw the ire of a sect of barbarians following the words of a war mongering pedophile. Apparently the truth hurts as the director of this short was murdered in the street by a coward.

Please note that virtually all the negative reviews of this piece are members of this supposed religion of peace.
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10/10
Not to be misinterpreted
Delaregulus9 December 2004
Warning: Spoilers
A woman suffers. She thinks it is because of the way her husband interprets the Koran. Allah remains silent, as grave she longs for.

This very short movie was made to promote discussions on how some Moslim women are treated as a result of certain phrases in the Koran that some people interpret as the justification for inequality between men and women.

If you think that through fruitful discussions and or actions you can help improve the situation of women in similar situations, go watch this movie. You will realize it is not against Islam but that it is a strong protest against real suffering of some women.

If on the other hand you believe that every single Moslim is a saint, that legal systems ans prisons are not required in Moslims countries, and that suggesting that some Moslim men mistreat their partners is a lie and an insult to Allah, then please don't watch this movie. It may motivate you to resort to violence. That was never the intention of this movie (or religions for that matter).
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8/10
Must see movie
wawh200111 November 2004
Some movies are not nice. This is one of them. It is about sincere woman, faithful to their religion, but treated bad by the system.

This movie was the reason, it's maker, Theo van Gogh, has been slaughtered, by someone not able to communicate in a civilized way, but driven by an evil spirit.

Submission part I is strongly recommended to all woman, and those men who are strong enough to accept that men can show (collective) brutal and repressive behaviour.

The movie might be offensive to some people, as a woman's breast is shown behind a veil. This is not done in an erotic way.

This movie can explain more, than an entire book could do. A must see.
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9/10
High score for the courage!
Deny Hermawan2 March 2007
Well, I've never saw a movie that tries to reveal the truth about Islam. This is the only movie i know that strike to the heart of Islam very very softly. this is a clever critic about that anti-critical religion.

With the style of narration from the main female protagonist, we can understand about a simple tragedy in Islamic environment, but have a deep and tremendous impact to the her paradigm. She begin to asking herself about her God and religion.

Nudity (even transparency of body like in the film) and tattoo is a sin to Islam. Van Gogh dare to depict it as an connotative index for in-obedience to Islamic law. This is a very good satire, because the main female character is an obedient person. By only her beautiful eyes, we can see her sexual appeals. Yes, she is obedient and erotic.

This movie is as expensive as van Gogh's life. very very worthy. It tried to show us that blind submission (particularry by tradition) is the heresy itself.
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10/10
A Celebration Of Mortal Woman Which Is The Thing All Religions Despise
Theo Robertson18 December 2012
Warning: Spoilers
As an anti-theist it sickened me hearing about the murder of Theo Van Gogh . Same as it sickened me watching 3,000 human beings being crushed and incinerated as the attack on the World Trade Centre unraveled on television . It sickened me turning on the news on the 7th July 2005 hearing that there'd been a terrorist attack on the London transport system . It sickened me every time I turn on the news and hear that NATO soldiers have been killed by Jihadists in Afghanistan . In short I believe that religion is the worst thing humanity has invented and make no mistake - God is entirely manmade and if nothing else I owed it to myself to watch Van Gogh's short film , a film that cost the film maker his life . Because of the controversy and because of the moral cowardice of broadcasters ( We all remember the controversy of these Danish cartoons don't we ? ) it's not something you'll see broadcast on network television in Britain but it's easy to find on the internet

The concept is incredibly simple a woman - wearing a burqa - standing upon a stage gives a monologue on her life . As a 16 year old she meets a man at a market and they fall in love but the love is doomed because she has to undergo an arranged Muslim marriage . She mentions her menstrual cycle seen as Allah as a pollution , She bemoans the strength of man who beats her during the week of her period. According to Muslim tradition she is not allowed to show her physical ornaments . She sins by fantasizing about the wind through her hair . Her Uncle comes to stay her family and sexually abuses her . When she tells her mother her father beats her for dishonoring his brother . Her husband leaves when she discovers she's pregnant and when she prays for salvation she finds Allah is silent . The End

With the exception of the woman wearing a thin costume showing her breasts nothing about SUBMISSION can be intrerpreted as controversial , and certainly no crime has been committed . Van Gogh's short film shouldn't be seen as an attack on the Islamic faith but on violent mysogynism that is allowed to flourish in all cultures that lean towards religion . Beating a woman up because she's on her period , this is very common in Hindu culture as well as Muslim ones . Arranged marriage is also common in Hindu culture . Any type of fantasy is seen as sin in every religion try and think of how the Catholic church regard " impure thoughts " and how abortion is outlawed in the Catholic Republic of Ireland and Protestant North of Ireland is outlawed . Think of the attacks on abortion clinics are bombed and abortionists are murdered by evangelical Protestants in North America . It's a womans body and it's her right to choose ? Yes it is , but this is superseded if a man has God on his side . You love a woman ? You can't if you love God . Only a non believer can ever truly love a woman

I never knew you Theo Van Gogh and had never heard of you until after your death and I know you'll never be able to read this but I'd still like to say thank you for making this short film film that shows that life is a living hell for many women on this planet
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8/10
I feel the strength of my husband's fist upon my face at least once a week.
lastliberal12 July 2009
Submission is a 10-minute film in English directed by Theo van Gogh and written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (a former member of the Dutch House of Representatives for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy); it was shown on the Dutch public broadcasting network (available on YouTube). The film's title is a direct translation of the word "Islam".

The film tells the story of four fictional characters played by a single actress wearing a veil, but clad in a see-through chador, her naked body painted with verses from the Koran. The characters are Muslim women who have been abused in various ways. The film contains monologues of these women and dramatically highlights three verses of the Quran,(4:34 2:222 and 24:2) that authorize mistreatment of women, by showing them painted on women's bodies.

It is a political statement and indictment of those countries that allow honor killing to go on despite laws against them.
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6/10
Theo van Gogh's fatal movie
rbverhoef28 January 2005
This is a short Dutch film about Islamic women trying to explain how they live following Allah and his holy book and how miserable it makes them. It was written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Dutch politician who fights for human rights, women rights, Islamic women rights. Here she has written a pretty powerful short movie although it has some weak points.

The movie itself, directed by the murdered Theo van Gogh, shows us an Islamic woman almost entirely covered by a black piece of clothing and a veil. We can look through the clothing, showing us the naked woman underneath. The woman where it is all about. While showing us this, the woman and other women tell their story of how they live with the holy book as their guidelines. They also tell that the men take advantage of certain passages in the book so the women end up beaten and raped.

Like I said it is powerful and things like this happen, I can believe that. But the movie shows no other side, quite logical since it wants to make a point, but therefore it seems exaggerated. For some women it is probably as described in the movie, but here it all seems to happen to one person at the same time, making it all less believable. Still, the issue needs attention, in some ways, and a movie like this could be a good thing to start with. The director who is murdered for making this short definitely did not deserve it, not because it questions certain aspects of the Islamic faith.
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1/10
Generalizing the way 800 million Muslim men treat women with a 10 min "documentary" is a decadent and vain attempt to discredit a religion and a culture.
dcdemon16 December 2004
As it is read in the plot outline, "this is a short documentary directed by Theo van Gogh on the mistreatment of women in the Islam. It shows abused women, with Koran texts on their body that validate their mistreatment."

First of all, you should all know that the director himself was not only stabbed but also shot to death sometime after the release of this documentary. Now there are many reasons to this.

This movie is propaganda at its best, in my opinion. It does so many things wrong and is a fine example of why the immigration in many European countries is not working. Many Europeans have expressed rage because of murder of the director, which everyone can understand.

Many Muslims have expressed that this movie provokes their entire religion and is a disgrace. Now I agree with many of you when you say: In Europe we have Freedom of speech. Yes we do indeed. But don't we also have laws that say we are not to discriminate minor ethnic groups? Don't we have laws that say we are not to create blaspheme? We do in Denmark, and I know this because I live here.

Now I have been watching the debate ever since it started and I must say many things of have shocked me. About a week after the murder, the Muslims in Denmark were on TV again, expressing how much this movie provoked their religion. This was completely ignored by the right-wing politicians who soon after decided to give a prize to one of the staff members that helped create this short documentary. Later on when Muslims decided to sue the TV networks for airing this movie, the politicians tried to change and remove a certain paragraph that would leave the Muslims with no options.

I do not understand how we in Europe can go and on about Freedom of Speech and Human Rights when at times we violate them ourselves.

What about the laws on discrimination? What about human rights? What about freedom of religion? Now when it comes to this, Europeans unfortunately are not the best. We sure could learn a thing or to from the Americans that we like to label as "over weighted idiots". We have a famous right wing politician in Denmark called Pia Kjaersgaard. Now this woman's view upon immigrants and Muslims is amazing. She openly uses the word "Perker" when referring to immigrants, which is the same as calling black people "n*ggers" and yet this woman gets away with a small slap on her hand.

Now one thing I am quite certain of, in the USA if you use a word such as "n*gger" on public TV, your political career is pretty much over and you risk being charged legally. Why? Because the law clearly says "No discrimination". We have the same laws in Europe but do we apply them the same way?

Or how about this? A little freedom of religion for you. Turkey which is now trying to join the EU has been criticized for so many years with violations of human rights. I was in Istanbul this summer and something really shocked me. In Istanbul (note: a Muslim country) you find hundreds of Mosks of course but you also find many Synagogs and about 30 Churches. In Denmark on the other hand.. the government still refuses to give Muslims a fully Muslim burial ground, forget about the Mosk.

If we as people cannot respect others because they are different than us, their looks, names, culture is different, then we have a problem. And these problems need to be discussed. The issue is the way we discuss them. How would your average Christian react if the Muslims created a move where Jesus was seen naked as a pedophile?

Hate on hate leads to more hate, more terrorism on terror results in further terrorism. Extremists trying to fight Muslim extremists (in this case) only leads to more extremism. Which was precisely the result of this movie, the director was shot to death.

Provoking and pushing people does not immigrate them. Taking their rights and controlling their freedom doesn't either. It only turns them into the thing we don't want them to become.
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Muslim girl message
sara fahmy8 January 2005
I am 20 years old Muslim girl,living in a Muslim country(Egypt), studying advertising & graphic design ...respecting the European culture that respects the other ... My religion gave me complete freedom to live a real life ... The image of the abused Muslim girl which the film reflects is totally not true, it seems that the people who worked on producing that kind of film didn't know a single right word about Islam or the Islamic civilization & culture , they were ignorant about the human rights in any Islamic state such as the security of personal freedom,the freedom of expression,the protection of honor& freedom of conscience & conviction as god says in the holy Quran "there should be no coercion in the matter of faith). Just read the holy Quran to know more about Islam & to know the other... Hope my simple words can make difference in knowing what a Muslim woman's life is...
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10/10
Theo van Gogh vs. Hirsi Ali
jop_jeffrey25 April 2006
In the movie you can see Islam is a beauty of a religion. But it has important bad things. Hirsi Ali, a Dutch politicus, asked Theo van Gogh to make this movie to let people see what is Islam. In the movie is told that men are dangerous about women. The Islam in the Netherlands were absolutely not happy with this movie. Theo van Gogh were killed shorty after making this. Hirsi Ali has been treated several times, according to the Dutch FBI, she isn't safe now either. Other politici who are treated: Geert Wilders, he is a right-extreme one in the Dutch government. If you want to know how came he in the government: He has support from half Holland, probably because there are 1 million Muslims in The Netherlands. I can only say one thing in Dutch: "Theo had gelijk..." It means: "Theo was right..."
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1/10
we had 1 winner, 2 losers
ishopper5 January 2005
After I learned of what happened to the director, I was curious to watch the movie. The director and Ayaan Hirsi Ali has gone too far with this movie. She cannot be an ex-Muslim. You either have faith and become a Muslim or you are not one. Allah never gives up on us, people give up on him. For hundreds or years non-Muslims have wanted the same respect we give our women. The issues of domestic violence are much worse in non-Muslim countries. And as for everything such as stealing, killing and adultery, it is punishable equally for men and women, so there's no sexism. I think Ayaan didn't want to marry the man chosen by her "family". Rest of justification of it, a reaction! However, It makes me depressed and angry when I see Muslims who commit wrongs to further their causes. They should remember that any victory they might gain in the world that was not by means that God has allowed will be made void by God on Judgment Day, and that is no victory at all but the ultimate loss. The only way to gain true victory is to obey the limits that God has set. Even if a people have been wronged, they need to seek restitution in the right way and not commit further wrongs themselves. Whoever has done this has committed a terrible sin and crime. The Quran says "Whoever kills a single human being unjustly is as though he had killed all of humankind" (Surah AL-Ma'Aida ayah 32). Deliberate murder of another person will put you in Hell forever. Imagine the punishment for those who have killed dozens, hundreds, or thousands (Like Usama Bin Laden in America,like Sharon in Palestine and like Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan . Whoever has committed this atrocity will have God's wrath upon him. Finally, I'm sorry for everyone who thinks that Islam discriminates against women. Why do almost all Europeans share the same thought. What do you really know about Muslims, what do you know about the Koran? Do you really believe that your knowledge (taken from your media) is sufficient to create an opinion? Do you really think that a religion of violence and unequal rights could exist for about 1500 years? Think about it and read about Islam. Your eyes may be opened one day and hopefully you will see the truth. The truth is no only for Muslims, it's for the whole mankind. I would suggest those links provided here for those who need to know more about Islam: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0432109/board/thread/13642602 outside links are at the end of the above link because it wasn't allowable to post them here. Final Comment: Two were losers in this story, The Director (who lost his life) and Islam who wasn't fairly described by the author or the one who killed Gogh. However, Like everything else, we have a winner: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the story writer. Hossam Abdul Hameed hossam@t4s.com
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1/10
No way...
mohamad_theyab1 January 2005
No way this is Islam, some one mistake don't make a religion Islam is peace , Islam is love ... any body know Islam will feel the meaning of love , the love of GOD, the love of the messengers, the love of humanity ,the love of the family ... read about Islam and you will know the meaning of Islam.

(who does not respect him self ...

will not respect any body)

Is freedom is the contempt the others, first you must understand the others, then you will get an idea about him ... the woman is the most precious we have in this world.

The prophet of Islam said that ( The best man who is the best to his women) You are closer to your mother than the father 3 times ... in Islam

Any body can tell about Muslims or Islam ... but what is it?!! Read about Islam ... and you will know the truth Thank you
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