|
| David Pollock | .... | sound supervisor (91 episodes, 2003-2011) |
| Renato Ferrari | .... | sound: film / film sound (88 episodes, 2003-2013) |
| Russell Edwards | .... | sound: film / film sound (87 episodes, 2003-2013) |
| Kiff McManus | .... | sound: film / film sound (65 episodes, 2004-2013) |
| Rob Entwistle | .... | sound: film / film sound (58 episodes, 2005-2012) |
| Graham Kirkman | .... | dubbing mixer (40 episodes, 2007-2012) |
| Stewart Harper | .... | dubbing mixer (36 episodes, 2007-2011) |
| Chris Lebert | .... | sound: film / film sound (30 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Sam Staples | .... | sound: film / film sound (26 episodes, 2003-2010) |
| Robin Saunders | .... | dubbing mixer (26 episodes, 2005-2006) |
| Simon Ware | .... | sound: film / film sound (25 episodes, 2002-2006) |
| Ryan Chandler | .... | sound: film (21 episodes, 2004-2009) |
| James Kenning | .... | sound: film (20 episodes, 2003-2007) |
| Michael Wood | .... | dubbing mixer (20 episodes, 2004-2012) |
| John Clements | .... | sound supervisor (20 episodes, 2011-2013) |
| Peter Cowasji | .... | sound: film / film sound (17 episodes, 2006-2011) |
| Chris Walker | .... | sound: film / film sound (16 episodes, 2004) |
| Tim Worth | .... | sound: film (15 episodes, 2003-2006) |
| Keith Mayes | .... | sound supervisor (14 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Darren Tate | .... | sound: film (14 episodes, 2007-2012) |
| Dan Gable | .... | dubbing mixer (13 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| Julian Chatterjee | .... | sound: film / film sound (13 episodes, 2003-2007) |
| Luke Tennant | .... | dubbing mixer (13 episodes, 2003) |
| Chris Wright | .... | sound: film / film sound (13 episodes, 2005-2013) |
| Laurie Rose | .... | sound: film / film sound (12 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Paul Johnson | .... | sound supervisor (10 episodes, 2004-2007) |
| Colin Bowes | .... | sound: film (9 episodes, 2003-2011) |
| Andy Hodges | .... | dubbing mixer (9 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Gabriel Scott | .... | sound: film / film sound (8 episodes, 2003-2012) |
| John Mooney | .... | sound: film (6 episodes, 2005) |
| Marc Wojtanowski | .... | sound: film / film sound (6 episodes, 2006-2013) |
| Rob Leveritt | .... | sound: film (5 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Keith Gunn | .... | sound supervisor (5 episodes, 2002) |
| Ned Hards | .... | sound: film / film sound (4 episodes, 2002-2007) |
| Andrew Chorlton | .... | sound: film (4 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Gordon Nightingale | .... | sound: film / film sound (4 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Steve Middleton | .... | sound: film (4 episodes, 2005) |
| Richard Munns | .... | sound: film (4 episodes, 2006-2008) |
| Dennis Fitch | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2002) |
| Lucy Pickering | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003-2008) |
| Brian Powell | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003-2007) |
| James Thomson | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Doug Dreger | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003) |
| Grant Lawson | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003) |
| Richard Walcott | .... | sound: film (3 episodes, 2003) |
| Kirsten Jones | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Tom Gibb | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2003) |
| Kenny Allan | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2004) |
| Patrick Boland | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Mark Langton | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2006) |
| Simon Gennard | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2007-2008) |
| Joe Walters | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2007-2008) |
| Phil Bax | .... | sound: film (2 episodes, 2011) |
| |
|
| Neil McLintock | .... | camera supervisor (128 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Casper Leaver | .... | film camera (123 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Dennis Fitch | .... | mini camera operator / minicams (122 episodes, 2003-2011) |
| Ben Joiner | .... | film camera / camera operator (121 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Rob McDonald | .... | camera operator / camera / ... (117 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Phil Piotrowsky | .... | camera operator / camera supervisor / ... (117 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Iain May | .... | film camera (110 episodes, 2003-2013) |
| James Ramsay | .... | camera operator / camera (108 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Chris Kempton | .... | lighting director (76 episodes, 2006-2013) |
| Toby Wilkinson | .... | film camera / mini camera operator (63 episodes, 2004-2013) |
| John Couzens | .... | film camera (54 episodes, 2002-2005) |
| Jay Kennedy | .... | film camera / mini camera operator / ... (53 episodes, 2005-2013) |
| Stuart Gain | .... | lighting director (42 episodes, 2002-2005) |
| Leon Henry | .... | camera operator / camera (39 episodes, 2008-2013) |
| Thomas Thomas | .... | lighting technician (30 episodes, 2005-2008) |
| Dan De Castro | .... | film camera (30 episodes, 2008-2012) |
| Simon Wagen | .... | film camera (23 episodes, 2007-2013) |
| Julian Harries | .... | camera operator (22 episodes, 2002-2011) |
| Chris Dunford | .... | film camera assistant / camera assistant / ... (20 episodes, 2009-2013) |
| Warwick Fielding | .... | lighting director (18 episodes, 2002-2005) |
| Charlie Ponniah | .... | film camera (18 episodes, 2004-2012) |
| Paul Bamford | .... | film camera / mini camera operator (17 episodes, 2005-2012) |
| Mark Cruickshank | .... | camera operator / camera (14 episodes, 2002-2009) |
| Paul Baldwin | .... | film camera (13 episodes, 2003-2008) |
| Ben Foster | .... | film camera (13 episodes, 2005-2008) |
| Nick Kauffman | .... | camera operator (13 episodes, 2011-2013) |
| Matt Ingham | .... | camera operator / camera (12 episodes, 2002-2006) |
| David Meadows | .... | film camera (12 episodes, 2003-2013) |
| Will Churchill | .... | film camera (12 episodes, 2010-2013) |
| Nat Hill | .... | camera operator / camera (11 episodes, 2002-2011) |
| Tom Pridham | .... | film camera (11 episodes, 2003-2007) |
| Derek Pennell | .... | camera operator (11 episodes, 2005-2013) |
| Jonathan Henderson | .... | camera operator (10 episodes, 2005-2013) |
| Paul Dugdale | .... | camera operator (10 episodes, 2007-2008) |
| Nick Lawton | .... | film camera assistant (10 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Jamie Cairney | .... | film camera (9 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Bill Peachment | .... | lighting director (8 episodes, 2008-2011) |
| Mark Hammond | .... | film camera (8 episodes, 2008-2010) |
| Chris Miller | .... | camera operator / camera (8 episodes, 2011-2013) |
| Keith Schofield | .... | film camera (7 episodes, 2002-2005) |
| Robin Sunderland | .... | film camera (7 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| Nick Manley | .... | film camera (7 episodes, 2004) |
| Will Potter | .... | film camera (7 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Andy Seggins | .... | film camera assistant (6 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Robin McDonald | .... | film camera (5 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| Martin Schlote | .... | camera operator (5 episodes, 2005-2009) |
| Justin Evans | .... | film camera (5 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Jonathan Thursby | .... | mini camera operator / film camera (5 episodes, 2007-2009) |
| Steve Albins | .... | film camera (4 episodes, 2002-2005) |
| Mark Langton | .... | film camera / cameraman (4 episodes, 2004-2012) |
| Nick Cleave | .... | film camera (4 episodes, 2004-2007) |
| Stafford Gillott | .... | camera operator / camera (4 episodes, 2004-2006) |
| Paul Riley | .... | film camera (4 episodes, 2004-2005) |
| Gary Boulter | .... | mini camera operator / film camera (4 episodes, 2007-2008) |
| Steve Lidgerwood | .... | film camera (4 episodes, 2008-2013) |
| Sam Bishop | .... | jimmy jib assistant (4 episodes, 2009-2012) |
| Ahmet Bekir | .... | camera operator (4 episodes, 2009-2011) |
| Andrew Schaale | .... | mini camera operator (4 episodes, 2010-2013) |
| Jon Shepley | .... | mini camera operator (4 episodes, 2010-2013) |
| Chris Omand | .... | film camera assistant (4 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Gary Rogers | .... | film camera / film camera assistant (4 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Ross Wilson | .... | film camera assistant (4 episodes, 2013) |
| Barrie Foster | .... | film camera (3 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Sean Wilton | .... | mini camera operator (3 episodes, 2003) |
| Andy Pilling | .... | mini camera operator (3 episodes, 2004-2013) |
| Shane Daly | .... | film camera (3 episodes, 2004) |
| Dave Evans | .... | camera operator (3 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Paul Robinson | .... | film camera (3 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Orlando Stuart | .... | film camera (3 episodes, 2006) |
| Adam Parkes | .... | mini camera operator / film camera (3 episodes, 2010-2013) |
| Darren Cox | .... | film camera (3 episodes, 2010-2012) |
| Paul Jarvis | .... | camera operator (3 episodes, 2010) |
| Ben Banayo | .... | film camera assistant (3 episodes, 2012) |
| Claudio Cadman | .... | film camera assistant (3 episodes, 2012) |
| Nigel Reynolds | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Mark Robinson | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2003-2011) |
| Steve Gray | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2003-2009) |
| Sam Key | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2003-2005) |
| Matthew Huntley | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2003) |
| Ben Wheeler | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2004-2006) |
| Mike Carling | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Stephen Dobson | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2006) |
| Andy Watt | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2007-2009) |
| Matt Ball | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2007) |
| Marcus Domleo | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2008-2009) |
| Mike Callan | .... | camera operator (2 episodes, 2009) |
| Jamie Dodds | .... | film camera assistant (2 episodes, 2010-2012) |
| Carston Bell | .... | aerial camera operator (2 episodes, 2011-2013) |
| Alex MacDonald | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2011) |
| Rob Sargent | .... | camera operator (2 episodes, 2011) |
| Michael Flores | .... | film camera (2 episodes, 2012) |
| Nathan Waters | .... | film camera assistant (2 episodes, 2012) |
| Daniel Henderson | .... | film camera assistant (2 episodes, 2013) |
| |
|
| Richard Porter | .... | script editor / script supervisor (156 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Liz Campbell | .... | production team (144 episodes, 2002-2013) |
| Elena Christodoulou | .... | production coordinator / production team / ... (82 episodes, 2007-2013) |
| Paul Williams | .... | production executive (82 episodes, 2007-2013) |
| Elaine Stephenson | .... | production accountant (69 episodes, 2007-2013) |
| Hannah Young | .... | researcher / production team (65 episodes, 2007-2012) |
| Graeme Robson | .... | engineering manager (62 episodes, 2005-2013) |
| Greg Vince | .... | researcher / production team (62 episodes, 2007-2011) |
| Adrian Walsh | .... | assistant floor manager / floor manager (61 episodes, 2007-2013) |
| Nick Dalton | .... | researcher / production team (61 episodes, 2007-2011) |
| Jane Bentham | .... | production executive (47 episodes, 2003-2006) |
| Marc Baker | .... | floor manager (47 episodes, 2004-2011) |
| Rowland French | .... | researcher / production team (45 episodes, 2002-2006) |
| Andrew Jones | .... | engineering manager (40 episodes, 2003-2011) |
| Katy Henderson | .... | researcher (39 episodes, 2003-2005) |
| Gavin Whitehead | .... | researcher / production team (39 episodes, 2006-2008) |
| Sara Hulme | .... | production coordinator / production co-ordinator (39 episodes, 2007-2010) |
| Neil Taylor | .... | researcher (36 episodes, 2004-2005) |
| James Wiseman | .... | researcher / production team (35 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| Jon Grubb | .... | production team (33 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| Oisin Tymon | .... | production coordinator / production co-ordinator (33 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Rachel Lister | .... | production team / production coordinator (32 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Rob Smith | .... | floor manager (32 episodes, 2008-2013) |
| Stuart Fennimore | .... | production team / researcher (32 episodes, 2011-2013) |
| David Pembrey | .... | production team (29 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Justine Sullivan | .... | guest booker (29 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Alex Renton | .... | researcher (27 episodes, 2004-2006) |
| Sophia Vaizey | .... | production team (27 episodes, 2004-2006) |
| Michelle Julier | .... | researcher / production team (25 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Karina Rowe | .... | production coordinator (25 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Ed Sharpe | .... | floor manager (23 episodes, 2002-2004) |
| John Manning | .... | production team (23 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Grant Wardrop | .... | researcher (22 episodes, 2005-2006) |
| Rick Horne | .... | production team (19 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Laurence Hill | .... | guest booker (19 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Jon Briest | .... | production coordinator / production co-ordinator (19 episodes, 2004) |
| Alec Potter | .... | floor manager (17 episodes, 2004-2005) |
| Owen Butler | .... | production team (17 episodes, 2005) |
| Catherine Donohoe | .... | production team / production coordinator (17 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Mel Hoffman | .... | production executive (16 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Jack Beardsley | .... | assistant floor manager (15 episodes, 2005-2007) |
| Sarah Dutton | .... | production team (15 episodes, 2008-2009) |
| Cheryl Parker | .... | production team (15 episodes, 2009-2010) |
| Richard Cole | .... | floor manager / assistant floor manager (14 episodes, 2003-2008) |
| Peter Holton | .... | production team (14 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Jane Taylor | .... | production executive (14 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Will Thomas | .... | production team (14 episodes, 2008) |
| Anna McGrath | .... | production coordinator / production team (14 episodes, 2009-2010) |
| Nicole Rosbergen | .... | production accountant (14 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Lauren Webber | .... | production coordinator (14 episodes, 2011-2012) |
| Poppy Ross | .... | production coordinator / production team (13 episodes, 2002-2003) |
| Seonaid Murray | .... | production coordinator / production co-ordinator / ... (13 episodes, 2006-2007) |
| Michelle Clinton | .... | production coordinator / production co-ordinator (13 episodes, 2007) |
| Richard Shaylor | .... | engineering manager (12 episodes, 2003-2006) |
| Jack Burnford | .... | production team (12 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Theresa Lydon | .... | production coordinator (12 episodes, 2003) |
| Helen Gibson | .... | production team / researcher (11 episodes, 2003-2004) |
| Tom Watt-Smith | .... | production team (10 episodes, 2003) |
| Louisa McDonald | .... | production coordinator (10 episodes, 2007) |
| Samantha Beddoe | .... | production accountant (10 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Nick Gamble | .... | production team (10 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| Bob Young | .... | engineering manager (9 episodes, 2003-2010) |
| Ian Morris | .... | production team (9 episodes, 2003) |
| Nimira Velji | .... | production coordinator (9 episodes, 2003) |
| Jules Hawkins | .... | production team (9 episodes, 2004) |
| Claire Holdsworth | .... | guest booker (9 episodes, 2004) |
| Louise Owen | .... | production coordinator (9 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| James Woolley | .... | production team (9 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Rebecca Parnell | .... | production team (9 episodes, 2013) |
| Lew Henson | .... | engineering manager (8 episodes, 2003-2007) |
| Chaz Hine | .... | production team (8 episodes, 2010) |
| Emma Norrey | .... | production coordinator (8 episodes, 2010) |
| Kirsten Taylor | .... | production team (8 episodes, 2011-2012) |
| Liane Zuchelkowski | .... | production coordinator (8 episodes, 2013) |
| Roger Dempster | .... | floor manager (7 episodes, 2007) |
| Claire Foister | .... | production team (7 episodes, 2009-2010) |
| Simon Kay | .... | production team (7 episodes, 2009-2010) |
| Kelly Sait | .... | production accountant (7 episodes, 2009-2010) |
| Joe Faulkner-Edwards | .... | production team (7 episodes, 2009) |
| Irfhan Mirza | .... | production team (7 episodes, 2009) |
| Eddy Durnan | .... | post production runner (7 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Tom Carling | .... | production team (7 episodes, 2012) |
| Arno Seagrim | .... | production accountant (7 episodes, 2012) |
| Andy Batten-Foster | .... | creative director (6 episodes, 2002) |
| Bethanie Roser | .... | production team (6 episodes, 2002) |
| Yonni Usiskin | .... | researcher / production team (6 episodes, 2002) |
| Chris Gosson | .... | production assistant (6 episodes, 2007) |
| Anna McVey | .... | production team (6 episodes, 2008) |
| Ged Parsons | .... | script consultant (6 episodes, 2008) |
| Chris Gribbin | .... | production team (6 episodes, 2011) |
| Steve Chapman | .... | engineering manager (5 episodes, 2002) |
| Amanda Man | .... | production team (4 episodes, 2003) |
| Tom Munden | .... | production team (4 episodes, 2003) |
| Lucy Buckley | .... | production team (4 episodes, 2004) |
| Deborah McCarthy | .... | researcher (4 episodes, 2007) |
| Lee Hall | .... | assistant floor manager (4 episodes, 2008-2010) |
| Nick Keene | .... | floor manager (3 episodes, 2002) |
| Henry Biggs | .... | production team (3 episodes, 2003) |
| John Charlton | .... | engineering manager (3 episodes, 2004-2007) |
| Colin Hewitt | .... | engineering manager (3 episodes, 2004-2007) |
| Rachael Fraser | .... | production team (3 episodes, 2004) |
| Jo Ullman | .... | assistant floor manager (3 episodes, 2011) |
| Mandy Read | .... | assistant floor manager (3 episodes, 2012-2013) |
| David Gold | .... | floor manager (2 episodes, 2002) |
| Kat Gros | .... | production team (2 episodes, 2004) |
| Dave Currie | .... | engineering manager (2 episodes, 2005) |
| Gary Humphrey | .... | expedition coordinator / location safety advisor (2 episodes, 2007-2009) |
| Jo Ribeiro | .... | assistant floor manager (2 episodes, 2007-2009) |
| Osman Ijaz | .... | production team (2 episodes, 2007) |
| Catherine Clinton | .... | production team (2 episodes, 2008) |
| Ben Russell | .... | production team (2 episodes, 2008) |
| Chris Stott | .... | production coordinator (2 episodes, 2008) |
| Bill Blyth | .... | librarian (2 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Charlotte Hawkins | .... | post production co-ordinator (2 episodes, 2010-2011) |
| Alan Conley | .... | floor manager (2 episodes, 2010) |
| Paddy Duffy | .... | production team (2 episodes, 2010) |
| Elizabeth Bradley | .... | production coordinator (2 episodes, 2011-2012) |
| |
company.
Let me say that this is easily my favorite show on TV...ever. It's not just because I am a huge "petrol head" automobile fan either. More importantly, each episode is so finely crafted. The cinematography, music, commentary and choice of subject matter is second to none.
Top Gear could have easily just shot a car sitting on some asphalt and talked about it. Instead, they use all types of lens filters to color shots, cloud part of the shot, etc. They use high speed cameras to show a tire spinning in slow motion with the smoke wafting off the pavement. They take shots from helicopters high above through patchy cloud cover as a car cruises down a winding race track. Every shot is beautifully executed.
This camera work would be beautiful alone, but it has been paired with a fantastic soundtrack. Every song is picked to illustrate some sort of emotion. For instance, the main presenter, Jeremy Clarkson is driving his beautiful Aston Martin DB9 through the French countryside and he begins to speak about the beauty of the car and how it is like no other driving experience. It is his favorite car. As he is talking, the sun is setting and they use a soft filter on the camera with an amber tint. To top it all off they play Massive Attack's "Heat Miser". If you know this song it is a slow, warm, almost sad mixture of simple piano key notes and deep string instruments. It fits perfectly and really conveys the emotion of the moment. I can't stress enough how NO show on TV would even think of using songs from little known artists like Massive Attack. I could go forever but just know that they play punk, classic rock, new wave, classical, hip-hop and obscure UK electronic...and it all fits beautifully. Producers of TV and even movies should get some guts and learn that we know this music and it has a huge impact on the depth of a show.
With all of this fine camera work and music as a backdrop comes some great commentary from the 3 presenters. Jeremy Clarkson (the older know it all), Richard Hammond (the young wild one), and James May (the conservative middle age guy) combine to bounce intelligent and very opinionated commentary off each other. This is all mostly scripted, but they do it in a natural way. It all comes off as fun and off the cuff. They don't pull punches either. They regularly attack the government officials, protest groups, auto execs, and other countries. It is great to see a show that is not afraid to say whatever it wants without fear of offending.
Lastly, the choice of cars is fantastic. If you watch this show, likely you have some interest in cars (you don't have to...it's great entertainment). If you do, you'll appreciate how they pick everything from exotic supercars to econo boxes. They pick not only the obvious in each car class, but also some lesser known and interesting cars as well. Vehicles from all over the world are put to the test. I really love the fact that they pick some wildly expensive exotics and some extremely valuable collectors cars and actually drive them hard. Car shows usually show you these valuable cars, but then drive them slowly around because they are afraid of damaging them. Top Gear does a fantastic job of keeping the car reviews interesting. Want to see how fast a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti is? Well, lets put Jeremy in it and race it against a passenger jet carrying Hammond and Mays from London to Switzerland. How agile and fast is a Mitsubishi Evo? Let's put a champion rally racer in it and race it down a snowy mountain road against a championship bobsled team on a equal length chute. It's ideas like this that have kept this show fresh for so long.
There are many more aspects of this show I could talk about (ie. The Stig, Stars in a Reasonably Priced Car, the news, etc) but I am being a freak. I will end by telling you that the Discovery Channel has already aired a number of "edited for the USA" UK original episodes here in the States. They were chopped up and lost a lot of their flow and character. I was thrilled to see that Americans could get a chance to see this show. I was disappointed in Discovery for editing out a lot of the British slang, foreign cars, and worst of all the fun jabs at American culture. Are we Americans that sensitive that we can't handle pokes at our weight, love of anything big, gas guzzlers, and that our auto industry is falling behind? Are these secrets? Apparently Discovery execs think so. Well, Top Gear has announced they are making in conjunction with Discovery Channel a "Top Gear USA". They have said that the UK test run on Discovery was well received but (in their infinite wisdom) they think that a new USA version will go over better here. They have pulled the edited UK originals from Discovery and have already started shooting the new Top Gear USA. It is complete with a new trio of hosts, their own test track, and the Stig from the UK show. The biggest differences will most likely be no studio audience, only cars that we've heard of here, and a lot more US made cars. If you ask me this is a huge mistake. This show works as it is. Everyone I know here in the US that watches the unedited originals loves it. It goes to the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't try and fix it.". I believe we will end up with a watered down, poorly conceived, cheaply made variation of a good thing. Wait...isn't that why America's auto industry is falling way behind? Ironic isn't it?