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Lake of Fire (2006)

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16 comments in total

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16 out of 20 people found the following comment useful :-
Brilliant Documentary, 19 September 2006

Author: rtbd from United States

I saw this film at a Toronto Int'l Film Festival industry screening and thought it was one of best documentaries I have EVER seen! I've read a couple of reviews that have called it the definitive film of the subject of abortion - I completely agree. I've never seen anything so complex, complete and emotionally wrenching as this epic work. It stayed with me long after the screening. In fact, roughly 10 days have passed since I saw the film and it continues to haunt my thoughts. I weeped at the end. My only criticisms are it's length (far too long) and it's use of music, which often bordered on excessive and manipulative. But, those are relatively small concerns when weighed against the film's many positives.

I LOVE documentaries and have seen nearly every major work produced in the past 20 to 30 years (as well as not so major films). "Lake of Fire" may well be my favorite - I'm still deciding if any of the other films I've loved delivered the same unrelenting, yet profoundly emotional punch to the gut that this one did.

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20 out of 29 people found the following comment useful :-
Remarkable, 11 September 2006
Author: Nick Van der Graaf from Toronto, Canada

Caveat: I have been a pro-choice activist for many years in my home country of Canada, and attended the "March for Women's Lives" in Washington D.C. in 2004. Obviously I have a pretty solid opinion on this issue, but below I have tried to just talk about the film itself.

I saw this a couple of days ago at the Toronto Film Festival. I think it is an unflinching look at the how the battle over abortion rights has played out in the United States over the last 15 years or so. It was intended to be unbiased, an even-handed look at both sides of the issue. By and large, I think Kaye succeeded at this, but I would very much like to attend a screening of this film before an audience of committed pro-lifers to see what they think of it. I couldn't help but think that nearly all the pro-lifers interviewed came across as deeply disturbed, with a couple of exceptions.

The film clocks in at over two and a half hours and could easily loose 30 minutes without taking away from the impact of the film. Similarly it ends dreadfully - overblown music and an utterly inconsequential shot - the director having missed the perfect spot to end it 5 minutes beforehand.

Shot entirely in black and white, there are several moments of stunning beauty, contrasting with the frequently dull and suburban backgrounds in which such a passionate battle is being waged by both sides.

Overall I would definitely recommend this film, but only after it is re-edited from its present version.

A last note: Tony Kaye was present at the screening and gave an utterly bizarre performance during the Q&A at the end of the movie. He stood at the mike, rubbing his face vigorously, making little sense and often at a loss for words. We were planning to ask questions but he was so out of it that we decided not to waste our time!

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6 out of 6 people found the following comment useful :-
Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion., 16 April 2008

Author: lastliberal from Florida

It seems fitting that I watched this on the very day that I read about the atrocious state of child protection in Oklahoma. It is a reminder of the definition of "Pro-Life" that I believe so strongly: they only care about life before it is born, and are not concerned with life after birth.

It was an outstanding documentary that gave both sides of the issue, even to the point of showing an actual abortion being performed. I could have done without that. This is however, the definitive film on the issue.

Some may consider it slanted as it showed the pro-life advocates as crazy loons, but when they are self-confessed bigots like leader Randall Terry, and Klan members/ministers like John Burk that consider murderers "patriots," what else can you call them. This film will give you a good picture of where this issue started, and why it continues to this day. You will learn just who is keeping this alive and their reasons for doing so. You will also be well informed on the types of people who are using this issue for their personal causes.

Great film to educate you on this sensitive issue.

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2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :-
the best documentary you probably didn't see in 2007, 18 March 2008

Author: Filmjack3 from United States

In Lake of Fire, a film that Tony Kaye- director behind American History X (which he wanted to be named under the pseudonym 'Humpty Dumpty' following a loss of final cut)- has been shooting footage for over fifteen years, is about all you need to see to know the fundamentalist and existentialist ramifications on the abortion-in-America issue. It covers all of the pro-life advocates, the murders of doctors and bombings of clinics, footage of actual abortions, and even an interview with the real-life 'Roe' from Roe v. Wade. It covers about as much ground, in interviews and footage of those at rallies and on the street and so on and so forth, that can be covered in two and a half hours.

But what builds up Kaye's film to such a potent focus is that Kaye doesn't let out necessarily what *his* stance is on the issue. I think this was the way to go, and not necessarily because it would be insensitive one way or the other- in order to take as objective a stance as possible (which, in this case, is so next to impossible because of the subjective point for a woman when it comes time to decide on the pregnancy), it works best to let the sides speak for themselves. As it turns out, he doesn't let the pro-choice crowd be the only voices of reason either; one actually sees, when there isn't total crazy Bible-thumping rhetoric, some sound arguments against abortion. And why not? It's one of the murkiest of all issues in the annals of history, not just American. And as we learn painfully in Lake of Fire, no matter what the most savage and hypocritical of the maniacs who try and stop abortion practices and doctors (in the old Malcolm X 'by any means necessary' mold), women will always get abortions if it comes down to it.

Kaye's scope is large and all encompassing, with interviews from the likes of pragmatic minded Noam Chomsky and Alan Dershwitz (the latter's parable about the Rabbi hits it the nail on the head, if there could be a nail in this), to intelligent pro-lifer Nat Hentoff, to Roe (real name Norma McCorvey) who got converted to being pro-life after setting the stage for all of this in the 70s, to the clean-cut psycho Paul Hill. Then there's everyone in-between, from radio show hosts to priests and pastors (one of which, an uproarious 'Lamb' protector), and then to doctors and professors. Not one word is wasted, which is staggering unto itself for over two and a half hours.

What one sees is the issue of choice in general, but also the nature of zealousness. To be sure, the pro-choice crowd are far less zealous than those who use the bible (or the Pope or just any thoughts about heaven or hell in general and who they think will go to where or not) as a blanket of protection. And Kaye's style for this is like that of mourning for lack of disagreeing to agree, and vice-versa and in-between. His cinematography shoots things in a stark, gray tone, while Anne Dudley's music- very akin to American History X- is that of the utmost tragedy. There are many beautifully shot scenes, from close-ups to cut-aways, but one that strikes me the most is during the Q&A at a doctor's office with a woman who is about to get an abortion.

As far as the issue itself and how viewers will take to it... It's not cut and dry. It won't reveal to you anything that might change your opinion, if it's already steadfast, about the issue. What Kaye does do, and it's a brave feat, is to not candy-coat a thing, to be provocative but not to a point of no return, to make clear what is at stake in what it means for a human being to take a life, any life, and how we approach that. As a man I will never have to make that choice of 'do I or don't I' in the first trimester. But as Lake of Fire makes perfectly clear, it's a civil rights issue through and through. It also makes for some fantastic cinema through someone as meticulous and exemplary a filmmaker as the (unprolific) Kaye. A+

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2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :-
Stunning and Unsettling, 11 March 2008

Author: Witty_Kibitzer from Canada

*** This comment may contain spoilers ***

Lake Of Fire was stunning! This film literally took my breath away and left me feeling physically ill. I can easily see why it took Tony Kaye fifteen years to complete it. Filmed in stark black and white, this documentary about abortion is almost entirely made up of direct shots that do not suggest any bias on the director's part and it is never clear which side of the fence he falls on in this debate. It does, however, illustrate what can be wrong with either being pro-life or pro-choice. This film enraged me, sickened me, scared me, and even made me tear up a little bit. Really all it left me with was this feeling that any choice regarding the abortion issue would be "wrong" in some way instead of everyone being "right", as one of the speakers (Alan Dershowitz, Professor of Criminal Law at Harvard University) so eloquently put it. I have always considered myself to be pro-choice, although I have never believed that abortion was an option for me. This film highlighted many of the reasons why I feel this way, both that I feel that modern women need to have the right to choose and that I feel that abortion is in many cases horrific, and should not be taken lightly. On a purely visual level; the shots were flawless, the color choice (or lack of a use of color) was enthralling, and the editing flowed seamlessly back and forth between two sides of an issue that heeds extreme opinions on both ends. I found this to make for a very taut viewing experience. Just as you were digesting a scene from a Leftist point-of-view, the focus would shift to a speaker or compelling event from the right. It wouldn't surprise me if this were deliberate, as it made it hard for me to connect with the statements being made and forced me to pile every argument on top of another in my mind. I was elated that Kaye chose to close the film with a woman's emotional response after her abortion procedure. It very clearly illustrated that women are not just running out to get abortions on a whim, that they are difficult and painful decisions even for women that know without a doubt that they are making the best choice for themselves.

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4 out of 6 people found the following comment useful :-
Lake of Fire - An Intelligent, Objective, Fairly Unbias....mess of a film, 16 September 2006

Author: radioanagrama from Toronto, Canada

*** This comment may contain spoilers ***

Like the other reviewer here, saw this today at a screening at the Toronto International Film Festival.

Wow. Definitely an intense film. Intense because it certainly lays out the discussion on abortion in a fairly unbiased objective way. The first hour will leave you think "hold on a second, is this a Pro-Life film/propaganda masquerading as a serious documentary" but then through the rest the argument becomes more open minded as Kaye presents interviews with both ends of the argument.

The problems with the film is more in technical elements of a documentary. It is outright...too long. Certainly lengthy interviews and discussions with subjects about abortions, their roles in the pro life or pro choice movements will feature people speaking grandly and passionately, but at least 10 interviews could have been cut out entirely, or shortened significantly. As such, the pace of the film lags, sometimes you are compelled and moved and disgusted and laughing, and at other times the lull of certain interviews just detract from engaging in the film. Editing is somewhat sub par, pacing isn't great. The other weakness is that a lot of the content show is out of date, lots of coverage of events in the early 90's, etc etc, just seems not really fitting to discuss and analyze the abortion debate with figures and topics from a decade or more ago. Covering Roe vs Wade is key, there seems to be only one event discussed from this century. Kind of odd.

Otherwise, its a great topic to discuss, its an important film simply because he did pick good people to showcase on the topic. The film is startlingly because Kaye does show....abortions, repeat, you will see aborted fetuses in this, you will see the process of abortion and believe me plenty of people in the audience had to avert our eyes for a number of scenes in the film. That being said, it didn't seem like those images were there simply for shock value. Its more a strength that Kaye made a film that absolutely does not hold back, from either standpoint. The most absolutely inane and outright ridiculous evangelic, extremely fundamentalist Christian pro-lifers are given screen time, as well as the more moderate, intelligent, well spoken representatives on the Pro-Life side. At sometimes it might seem as if there is a Pro-Life bias, but when the entire audience is laughing at the ridiculously, narrow minded diatribes found in some of the interviews with the Pro-Lifers, its easy to see Kaye put them there, unfiltered to balance things out a bit.

The film....doesn't seem to have a good sense of direction. There are some shocking revelations (Roe, as in the woman who won an appeal to have an abortion legally in the famous Roe Vs. Wade case, is now working with a Christian group AGAINST abortion).

Anyways...cant think of what else to say. Good film, a few flaws, somewhat shocking at times, but interest topic for sure.

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1 out of 1 people found the following comment useful :-
A Very Haunting Movie!, 18 December 2007

Author: Jacobi1 from United States

*** This comment may contain spoilers ***

Lake of Fire ***1/2

I'll be the first one to admit to say that American History X wasn't a great movie. It was a good movie, but just not a great one. Director Tony Kaye however felt that it was a story that needed to be told and believe me Kaye, we really appreciated it. But for me, Kaye's Lake of Fire does more for me than American History X ever did. Now I'm not comparing the to movies as if they were the same, I'm just comparing them by director.

Kaye spends time with both sides of the abortion issue. I have to say that both sides make a valid point but the Pro-Choicers have the strongest argument which raises up some very interesting questions. However all the questions are rhetorical especially with a very delicate subject like this.

Now Pro-Lifers say that a fetus is a living thing and that it has rights. But do Pro-Lifers realize by saying and doing the things they do, that they are taking the rights of the women. We might as well throw out the 19th amendment if a woman can't allowed to have an abortion. What a woman does with her own body is nobody's business. Not mine and not yours.

Now I am a Pro-Choicer even if it creates some sore spots for some people, but I really don't care. However I wish Kaye had spend a little more time with the Pro-Lifers. However, Lake of Fire is an amazing documentary that will lead up to some heated discussion for anyone who watches it.

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One of a kind film. Profoundley disturbing., 19 June 2008

Author: the_jesus_2000 from Galesburg,IL

*** This comment may contain spoilers ***

No matter what your stance is on the Abortion debate, this film will make you reconsider your position.

This is where the film is best- when it gets you to merely think about it. Many people either don't or are to stubborn to consider that they are wrong. So who is right? Well, according to "Lake of Fire" everyone is. It never takes a side. However, there are more wackos shown on the Pro-Life side then the Pro-Choice. Many mistake this a bias, but this is more to show understanding rather then to condemn. You may be surprised as I was in some of the information reviled ab out key figures in the Abortion issue such as Roe herself.

So, if you are for or against Abortion this film will trouble you equally.I'm talking about actual abortions being shown twice,and crime scene photos of a woman with a hanger in her crotch dead from a failed abortion attempt. It will probably strengthen the view you already have,but you will leave with a better understanding for why your view is opposed.

Apart from the subject matter, it is a beautiful film. The music is overall good, if perhapses depressing. The presentation overall is as good as anything Ken Burns has ever made. The time and effort spent on this project is just unprecedented. Truly not a film made for money or awards. Any person is interested in documentaries or is interested in making them would be wise to see this film at least once. Its one of the better achievements in documentary film making since "Hearts and Minds".

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This is not easy viewing, 18 June 2008

Author: sylvesterthekat from Los Angeles

Unlike some here, I'd say it's quite obvious which side of the debate Tony Kaye himself lies on; that of pro choice. Although it presents both sides of the argument, the only sane representatives are on the side of choice. Now I don't know enough about the pro-lifers to know if they're all as nutty as the people presented to us in this film. Some aren't quite as crazy, for instance Norma McCorvey, whose reasons for now being pro-life can be understood (she was basically pressured into feelings of guilt for her part in Roe v Wade) if not supported.

What most of this boils down to is religious fanaticism. The vast majority of the pro-lifers use religious 'teachings' as their argument for abolishing abortion rights. I say that it's unwise to base any serious decisions on something as debatable and dubious as anything the bible has to say. After all, the bible at various points would have whole tribes of people wiped from the face of the earth, it would sacrifice daughters to prevent men from making sodomites of themselves, 'god' turns a woman to a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking back at her home. Good grief, what a terrible sin! Almost as bad as committing blasphemy for which crime some in this film seemed to think it was acceptable to face the death penalty. We need to be worried about the religious fanatics in this country, not complacent about them. With Bush's encouragement they have grown in strength and the abortion fight is just a part of their whole game.

Tony Kaye did a brilliant job here of showing us all of that. Pro Lifers can't possibly be happy about this film, even though it doesn't candy coat anything - we get to see abortion in all its gory glory. Nevertheless, I feel that if someone is sitting on the fence about the issue and sees this film, they're unlikely to want to associate themselves with the crazies portrayed herein, especially the lunatic priest in Colorado who claims that abortion doctors are Satan worshipers who dangle the expelled fetus by the leg and then barbecue it. Clearly he's one or two marbles short! To summarize, this is an absorbing if somewhat long documentary which presents various arguments for and against abortion and satisfactorily raises most of the issues. Rent the video and devote an evening to watching it but be prepared to run the gamut of your emotions (whichever side of the issue you support), from anger to frustration, fascination to sadness.

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Pro-lifers evidently don't understand bias, 12 June 2008

Author: Streetballa from United States

I saw a few people on here proclaiming themselves as pro-life and panning the film for supposedly being biased against their view.

First of all, purely on balance alone I'd say the film is equal to both sides. It's just that most of the stuff which makes you want to be pro-life comes at the beginning of the film while most of the content which makes you want to be pro-choice comes in the second half. It seems to me that they're just upset that their side didn't get the proverbial last word.

Secondly, this film is not about balance anyway. It's about documenting the cultural debate in the film about abortion in America. Whether one or two dissenting reviewers of this film are or not, the fact is that most of the pro-life advocates are Christian religious fringe. Of course there are exceptions, and they document that in the movie. Although I don't think Kaye should have given an hour to the secular atheist pro-lifers, because frankly there aren't that many of them.

The criticism also seem to come from people who don't even understand any points being made in the movie -- one reviewer claimed that Chomsky was comparing abortion to a woman washing her hands. That's not what he was doing at all. His example was made to demonstrate the relativity involved with the process of placing value on life.

In any event, the film definitely is a roller coaster ride, and there are times where you might find yourself at odds with your own opinion. The movie being as balanced as it is, probably wont change a lot of minds, but I would think at the very least it would soften your position one way or another. If it doesn't, you're either just stubborn, or you weren't even trying to pay attention to the message of the film.

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